Lyoness USA Responds To Accusations Of Ponzi, Pyramid, & Security Regulation Violations Pt. 1

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http://mlmhelpdesk.com/?p=9390 This is the first of three parts. Lyoness North America responds to the alligations and gives details on their comp plan and b…

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Troy Dooly says:

This video is a little long, but so is the topic matter. We are seeing more
and more shopping companies entering America?

Tamara Rogers says:

Wow, you would really need to see the compensation plan visually. I
understand the comp plan, yet hearing it presented without diagrams…
makes it super complex and confusing sounding. Really once you understand
the value of creating units, you are happy to go out of your way to shop
and create them. Lyoness offers so much more than a 2% cashback, which
puts them leaps and bounds in front of other loyalty cards.?

Troy Dooly says:

Yes as a paid consultant. I do not work for a company except via a very
detailed Convenant (Agreement) that lays out the specific responsibilities,
and expectations.

Seventh7Art says:

They engaged you to work with their compliance team…… As a paid
consultant or is it another type of collaboration/co-operation?

Troy Dooly says:

In closing the people at the top of Lyoness North America, at corporate and
in the field all seem focused on building a real business with longevity.
They have hired three different law firms to address the comp plan and
other issues and they engaged me to work with their compliance team to make
sure the field is marketing the program correctly.

Troy Dooly says:

However, there are still concerns from critics and folks inside the network
marketing community who are concerned with the partial down payment program
and the international expansion program. I will be doing a series on the
comp plan in the next few days to address what those concerns are and to
dig in and see how they might cause issues.

Troy Dooly says:

Well I never look at companies as good or bad, I look at what seems to be
the intent of the people running those companies and how the people in the
field market the company. It seems from all the interviews I have done with
US based leaders, both in corporate and the field, that in order for
commissions to flow shopping needs to take place. And in reviewing and
talking with local merchants, that is what’s happening. So based on that
the company seems have a real business model that works.

Ryan Buckley-Howell says:

what is your standing on the company today? good or bad?

Seventh7Art says:

You don’t get my sense of sarcasm, do you? I know damn well what a
financial pyramid is….

Ronald Jackson says:

I don’t think you understand the definition of pyramid scheme, it has to do
with the flow of money.

Troy Dooly says:

Sorry 🙂 Thank you

Seventh7Art says:

Because your sponsor knows that if you have one accounting unit, that will
generate more income for you & him, once you start building a downline
(lifeline is the term Lyoness uses, but it is the same thing). However,
bear in mind that the most important of all benefits is the career
points/levels which don’t require any downpayment! To have residual income
you only need a big downline (two direct referrals at least) who actually
shop. You don’t even need to shop. Lyoness is something else man!

Seventh7Art says:

The compensation plan is not hard to figure out if you FOCUS on it. I have
understood it and I am enthusiastic about it.

Seventh7Art says:

You don’t need to make any out of pocket purchase. I know the comp plan
inside out. Mark my words: If you could have your neighbourhood shopping
like they used to, as Lyoness members, in your downline, you wouldn’t have
to work any more. You need to invest zero bucks. The only thing you have to
pay is 1.5 dollars per registration. Do you call that investment?

Seventh7Art says:

There are Pyramids in Egypt. Perhaps you need to go there and see what a
real pyramid looks like.

Seventh7Art says:

I don’t see any kind of evidence to support your theories. The FTC hasn’t
shut down amway, so you are wrong. Reality beats you.

Seventh7Art says:

We ‘ll see about that. The SEC attorney doesn’t think so, and he is more
qualified than you. The Austrian “SEC-FTC” counterparts said Lyoness is
legal and legit.

Michael Jensen says:

Join FREE… Yes, but $525 out-of-pocket expense “purchase” just to take
chances that maybe, hopefully, possibly I get my money back. That’s just to
start building my “making money” “home business”. No thanks. I’ll pass.

Michael Jensen says:

Then why is my sponsor constantly asking me to really consider starting at
a high level, pressure to spend big money now… $225 plus $300 in Gift
Cards? I ain’t givin’ her a dime since I’ve already done some research on
Lyoness (before spending any money) and it seems way to risky for me.

Ronald Jackson says:

Lyoness is a pyramid scheme.

Troy Dooly says:

Most critics try and critique a company based off of information gained
from limited info. In the case of Amway, if you take the time to review the
top 10 counties they do business, you will quickly see, that unlike
America, their sales earning come from places where SALES not network
building is the key to growth. Take China as the first example 🙂

Troy Dooly says:

🙂 Well the FTC doesn’t state the MLM is unsustainable. And your figures on
distributors are also very wrong. Please provide a link showing where your
numbers come from. The official numbers used by the IRS sure are not this
high. And the numbers used by other regulatory bodies are not this high.

Dominic DiGiorgio says:

Troy I was speaking to Randall and Ronald. Troy thank you for all you do
for the industry.

Troy Dooly says:

Well since they have announced they may hide their troubles inside of
Bankruptcy, I am now more concerned than ever. Bankruptcy could allow them
to trash all the distributor agreements and not pay commissions owed.

Troy Dooly says:

Terrence, you bing up a great point. I personally know of one major
retailer here in the USA, where Lyoness went direct. This is a well-known
fortune 100 brand. Now as to your MLM comment. Well, you are 100% wrong
based on case law. Pyramids and Ponzi schemes hiding under the MLM covering
are 100% illegal. Those companies do at times sell un-registered
investments.

Troy Dooly says:

Dominic, who are you addressing? If you are referring to me, please be more
specific as to exactly what I am ignorance so I can educate myself a little
deeper. And for the record, I am not known for arguing, but I will gladly
debate on facts to help provide deep understanding to both sides of an
issue.

Randall Klassen says:

They were allowed to continue provided they had 70% external sales,
otherwise would be classified as an illegal pyramid scheme, which according
to their CEO, they do not meet. It’s extremely unsustainable for the
distributors.

Troy Dooly says:

Do you really think all the Insurance companies could payoff their claims
if everyone died? Or a bank can give back all the money on deposit if
everyone asked for it? Study the math with ALL the equations involved
before jumping to a conclusion, that will not hold up under scrutiny. 🙂

Troy Dooly says:

Terrence…. That is funny 🙂

Troy Dooly says:

Even regulators and actuaries agree that like Insurance, if a network
marketing company is founded with a real product, and sales are the
dominating factor, and the compensation plan, math has been developed
taking in all the factors that govern a successful business model, then
direct sales, network marketing, MLM or whatever you call it, will work and
is legit.

Troy Dooly says:

Randall, your comment above is not exactly true. It was not that they were
“Allowed”, it was the fact they had any rule in place. And if you dig you
see they added that after Glenn Turner and Koscot were hit as a pyramid.
And, if you just do some due diligence on Amway, you will find their sales
are higher per distributor and customer than many network marketing
companies.

Troy Dooly says:

I fully enjoy the debate, but again the math theory you use is flawed and
does not work. Sadly you and others only use part of the math needed to
come to a logical conclusion. And when using First Principles, one of the
things we must do in order to determine if our conclusion can hold up, is
to determine if we have all the fact surrounding the issue. If we do not,
then our World View will be real to us, but will be based on a fallacy.

Troy Dooly says:

Well, having 100,000 members is NOT a small company. Now, the comp plan may
be an issue. Which is why I am digging into it, and making sure that what
the company thinks they are telling reps, is really what reps think they
are hearing. 🙂

Dominic DiGiorgio says:

Ronald and Randell are absolutely brainless. I won’t waste my time
elaborating because when you argue with ignorance you lose 100% of the time
to experience.

Dominic DiGiorgio says:

Troy can’t wait for your report on telex free

Terrence Mowery says:

You are kidding yourself. The deal with the major retailers is probably
through a third party. Do you really think the retailers had their lawyers
dig in deep? MLM programs are illegal when they sell positions or ask for
money before the distributors earn the money. It is then an investment.

Terrence Mowery says:

Thanks for your effort. I am calling Sherlock (Holmes not the shopping) and
Einstein to figure out the comp plan. Looking forward to the next parts.

Terrence Mowery says:

They are too small in the US with 100,000 members. Once they get on the
radar of the authorities they will be shut down if they don’t change their
comp plan.

Randall Klassen says:

That’s why MLM is called a quasi-legal pyramid scheme. It’s unsustainable
for the distributors and a well known scam.

Seventh7Art says:

The courts of law, all over the world, have decided that MLM is legit and
not a pyramid. You have a problem with legal authorities?

Seventh7Art says:

First of all, I am not associated with Amway. Second, I support MLM as a
business model because it is sustainable for distributors as long as they
are doing the right thing. IF you ask me, the future of MLM lies in
shopping communities like Lyoness and the likes. Traditional MLM has high
attrition rate and as you said “distributor failure rate is almost 100%”
although in reality it is 97%. Lyoness is a revolution & evolution of the
MLM industry. It is fundamentally different from Amway, Avon etc

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